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Théun Mares on the role of gender

Théun Mares outlines the Toltec perspective on the role of gender, and what it can mean for people who are searching for true meaning surrounding their gender, as opposed to following the socially-conditioned views.


THÉUN MARES: Males and females are not the same, they are different, but they are equal.


Elizabeth: Is this why our relationships get so messy? Because some are more equal than others?


THÉUN MARES: Yes, of course! And then there are also those who try so desperately to make everybody the same, that today everybody is highly confused about whether they should be male or female, or just simply “it!”


Elizabeth: Is this not also part of the biggest challenge that humanity faces -- the gender issue?


THÉUN MARES: Yes indeed. The confusion surrounding gender has become huge. And of course we have two main factors contributing to that. First of all we have the male chauvinism of the past, where the female was very much subjugated and made to be a second-class citizen. That didn't help at all.

And then, there was the backlash, and then we had the so-called female liberation movement, where females were now determined that they could do anything that a male could do better. And that certainly didn't help, either.


And then we finally arrived at this unhappy truce which we have today, where people are desperately trying to annihilate all meaning of gender. So now men have to be like women, and women have to be like men. And nobody understands any more who is Arthur, or who is Martha!


Elizabeth: In your role then in bringing light to these type of situations, into relationships, do you have a dream, a vision, for the world in which we are living at the moment?


THÉUN MARES: Are you speaking specifically about gender?


Elizabeth: I feel that gender affects everything, whether we are male or female. But it seems to me that part of why the world seems to be in such a mess at the moment is because none of us know whether we are Arthur or Martha. So do you have a big vision, and then we can look at it a bit closer, in terms of gender?


THÉUN MARES: Yes. It is very hard to put it across in an interview like this, because I have to touch upon subjects which are actually vast, and unless one explains the subjects in their entirety, my words, that I am going to use now, can so easily be misconstrued, and they can bring great offence to people who might be listening to this interview. Simply because they do not understand where it is that I am really coming from.


But even at that risk, I am going to try and answer your question.


To keep it very simple, we say that the male represents the spirit. The spirit of all of us, both male and female. Whereas the female represents our social being -- in other words the incarnated being who is having to live life upon the physical plane. That is from a very technical perspective.


So we have male, representing the indwelling spirit, and we have female, representing the being on the physical plane. And of course, what makes us all, what brings about the totality of the self, is once again the relationship between the indwelling spirit and the incarnated being on the physical plane, between male and female, if we keep it simple. So the accent throughout my teachings is to help people to understand what it is really to be male, what it is to be female.


And then just to make life a little bit more complicated, if that isn't complicated enough, we also have something which we call the relative factor of awareness, because in reality, all of us, irrespective of our gender, we go throughout our daily lives, fluctuating, depending upon the needs of the moment, between being relatively male or relatively female.


The example I can give is that in many areas in the business arena today we have females who are the superior of male colleagues. To all intents and purposes, according to the relative factor of awareness, that female superior is masculine relative to her male colleagues. That is what we mean about the relative factor of awareness. And that happens all the time.


The other example I can use is mother and child. The mother, although she is female, relative to her life's experience, and relative to her knowledge of life, is masculine relative to her children. This is all what we mean by the relative factor of awareness.


I take great care in how I approach humanity in terms of to define clearly what is male, what is female, and also what does the relative factor of awareness really mean and how do we work with it in an intelligent way.


So when you ask me what is my greater vision, my greater vision is to bring both males and females to a far deeper understanding of their respective roles which are true to their gender. So rather than people, for example, or a female, thinking that she has to be one of these liberated women, and do everything better than any man can do it, rather to bring them to a realisation of what is the true meaning of being female. The true meaning. Not the perceived meaning according to our social conditioning, but the true meaning. And I do the same with the men that I work with. And I impart that in the books as well.


So yes, that is my greater vision in terms of gender. To make both males and females truly conscious of what gender means, and how through their role within life they can live true to their gender.


Elizabeth: You say that males and females currently have some sort of a truce. Do you feel that in some ways this is an impossible dream? Do you think it is something that we can really move towards in your lifetime?


THÉUN MARES: Just for clarity, is it the truce you are referring to as an impossible dream, or my vision?


Elizabeth: I think the truce is a reality!


THÉUN MARES: All right, so in that case you are talking about my greater vision.


For me, it is immaterial whether we are going to reach the goal in this lifetime. Because, from my perspective, what is far more important than the goal is the journey we undertake in order to achieve that goal, to reach that goal. So I am not necessarily looking at us reaching the goal in my lifetime, but I am looking at us at least starting upon the journey.


Elizabeth: So, yourself personally, in terms of your own dream, what would make your heart sing? What is your dream for yourself?


THÉUN MARES: What makes my heart sing is seeing people take the necessary steps in starting the journey. And then the joy which they find as they start to journey. And when I say joy, I mean genuine and lasting joy, not just momentary happiness, which is here today, and then gone tomorrow.







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